Courageous whistleblower, Scottish nurse and ex-Atos employee, Joyce Drummond, who recently made a heartfelt apology to Atos assessment victims, has submitted evidence to the Scottish Parliament Select Committee on Welfare Reform.
Joyce forwarded some of her notes to me, containing this information about Atos assessments. We had some dialogue about the content. I have edited where needed, organised the notes and added some information to the text. I’ve included the contents from Joyce’s notes in full.
Both Joyce and I share this information in the hope that people going through Atos assessments will find it helpful.
Joyce told me:
“I knew nothing about Atos when I joined, and left as soon as I realised that there was no way to ‘fight from the inside.’ I stated at my interview for the job that I believed in social inclusion and social justice.
I attended 4 weeks training in England. The training did not prepare me for what I was expected to do in real life.
The forms that are completed prior to assessment, I have recently found out, are actually opened by Royal Mail Staff. They are then sent for “scrutiny” where nurses decide whether or not a face to face assessment is required. I was not involved in this and do not know what criteria are used.It is made clear throughout training and working that we are not nurses – we are disability analysts. Also, we do not carry out “medical assessments” – we carry out “functional assessments”. We did not even need a diagnosis to carry out assessments. I had reservations around consent, as we were expected to assess patients – sorry, we didn’t have patients, we had ‘claimants’ – who appeared to be under the influence of alcohol or other substances.
We were also consistently told that we did not make benefit decisions. The final decision was made by a Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) decision maker with no medical qualification. If our assessment was overturned at appeal we never knew about it. There was no accountability for assessments overruled.”
Please note that assessment starts on the day of your appointment with the Health Care Professional (HCP) reading the form you completed when you applied for disability support. Remember that every single question you are asked is designed to justify ending your claim for ESA and passing you as “fit for work”. That is what Atos are contracted to do by the Government. This is not a genuine medical assessment, but rather, an opportunity for the DWP to take away the financial support that you are entitled to.
Things that are carefully noted at this stage are:
- Did you complete the form yourself?
- Is the handwriting legible?
- Are the contents coherent?
These observations are already used in assessing your hand function, vision, your cognitive state and concentration.
Further observations made:
- Do the things you have written ‘add up’? Are there any ‘discrepancies’?
- Does your medication support your diagnosis?
- What tests have you had to confirm diagnosis? For example a diagnosis of sciatica is not accepted unless diagnosed by MRI scan.
- Do you have supporting medical evidence from your GP or consultants? If you do, it shows that you are able to organise getting this information
Joyce observes:
“This is also a hidden cost to the NHS. I believe that if ATOS request information there is a charge levied by GP’s. However claimants are expected to source medical evidence themselves. It uses valuable NHS time for medical staff to write supporting statements.
There were no hidden cameras, at least in Glasgow, to watch people arriving for assessment or sitting in waiting room. This may not be true in other areas.”
When the HCP has read your form they input some data into the computer system. The assessment properly begins when they call your name in the waiting room.
At this point the HCP assesses:
- Did you hear your name being called?
- Did you rise from your chair unaided, did the chair have support arms or not?
- Were you accompanied? – assessing your ability to go out alone
- Were you reading a paper while waiting? – assessing your concentration
- Did you walk to the assessment room unaided, did you use any aids correctly? Did you navigate any obstacles safely? – assessing sight.
The HCP will shake your hand on introduction – assessing your handshake, noting if are you trembling, sweating – signs of anxiety. The HCP carefully scrutinises everything you do and say. The HCP will often ask on the way to waiting room:
- How long you’ve been waiting – assessing ability to sit, physically, and appraising your mental state
- How you got to the appointment – assessing ability to drive or use public transport
Formal assessment begins by listing medical conditions/complaints. For each complaint you will be asked:
- How long have you had it, have you seen a specialist?
- Have you had any tests, what treatments have you had?
- What’s your current treatment? Have you had any other specialist input e.g. physiotherapy, CPN?
The HCP will use lack of specialist input/ hospital admissions to justify assessing your condition as “less severe”. Medications will be listed and it will be noted if they are prescribed or bought. Dates will be checked on boxes to assess compliance with dosage and treatment regime. Any allergies or side-effects should be noted.
- A brief note is made of how you feel each condition affects your life
- A brief social history will be taken – who you live with, if have you stairs in your house or steps outside your house
- Employment history taken – asking when you last worked, what you work entailed, and the reason for leaving employment.
Your typical day – this is the part of the assessment where how you function on a day to day basis is used to justify the HCP decisions. Anything you say here is what is most likely to be used to justify you failing your assessment and being passed as “fit for work”. Along side this, the HCP records their observations.
Starting with your sleep pattern, questions are asked around your ability to function. This will include:
- Lower limb problems – ability to mobilise to shops, around the house, drive, use public transport, dress, shower
- Upper limb – ability to wash, dress, cook, shop, complete ESA form
- Vision – did you manage to navigate safely to the assessment room
- Hearing – did you hear your name being called in the waiting room
- Speech – could the HCP understand you at assessment
- Continence – do you describe incontinence NOT ‘CONTROLLED’ by pads, medication. Do you mention its effects on your life when describing your typical day
- Consciousness – Do you suffer seizures – with loss of continence, possible injury, witnessed, or uncontrolled diabetes
- HCP observations include – how far did you walk to the examination room, did you remove your coat independently, did you handle medications without difficulty, did you bend to pick up your handbag.
Formal examination consists of simple movements to assess limited function. Things the HCP also looks at:
- Are you well presented, hair done, wearing make-up, eyebrows waxed
- Do you have any pets – this can be linked with ability to bend to feed and walk
- Do you look after someone else – as a parent or carer – if you do, this will be taken as evidence of functioning
- Any training, voluntary work, socialising – this will be used as evidence of functioning
- Do you watch TV – this may be used as evidence of being able to sit unaided or as evidence of being able to concentrate
- If you wear jewelry it will be assumed you have sufficient dexterity to open and close the clasps on chains and so on.
This is not a comprehensive list, but it gives you an idea of how seemingly innocent questions are used to justify HCP decisions to pass you as “fit for work.” For example, “Do you watch soaps on TV?” is translated as “Can sit unaided for at least half an hour” on the report.
Mental Health:
- Learning tasks – Can you use a phone, computer, washing machine
- Hazards – Can you safely make tea, if claiming accident, there must have been some emergency services involvement, e.g. fire service. Near miss accidents do not count.
Personal Actions:
- Can you wash, dress, gather evidence for assessment
- Do you manage bills
Further observations made by the HCP – appearance and presentation:
- Coping with assessment interview – any abnormal thoughts, hallucinations, confusion
- Coping with change – ability to attend assessment, attend GP or hospital appointments, shopping and socialising
More HCP observations:
- Appearance, eye contact, rapport, any signs/symptoms that are abnormal mood/thoughts/perceptions. Any suicidal thoughts
- Coping with social engagement/appropriateness of behaviour – any inappropriate behaviour must have involved police to be considered significant
- Ability to attend assessment, engage with assessor, behave appropriately
Again, this is not an exhaustive list, merely some examples.
Further information:
At present to qualify for ESA you need to score 15 points, unless the Exceptional Circumstances Regulations apply to you. The 15 points can be from a combination of scores from physical and mental health descriptors.
To qualify for the Support Group you must score 15 points in one section. As long as you are claiming income-based ESA then your award can be renewed at each assessment, if you gain 15 points.
You may also qualify without meeting the 15 points criterion, even if you don’t score any points, because of Exceptional Circumstances (Regulation 29 and Regulation 35, (or 25 and 31 for Universal Credit – see link at the foot of article) if there would be a substantial risk to your mental or physical health if you were found not to have limited capability for work. Regulation 29 is about exceptional circumstances for being assessed as having limited capability for work (Work Related Activity Group), and Regulation 35 is about being assessed as having limited capability for work-related activity (Support Group).
Special cases – exemptions from assessment include those people having: terminal illness, intravenous chemotherapy treatment and those considered a danger to self or others if found fit to work.
Contribution-based ESA lasts for one year only, unless you are in the support group. After one year in the work-related activity group, you may only get income-based ESA if your household income is below a certain threshold. It makes no difference how long you have previously paid National Insurance.
Joyce told me:
“For clarity, as far as I know in the real world, doctors carry out medical assessments, nurses carry out nursing assessments and physios carry out physiotherapy assessments. In the world of Atos, people from each of these separate professions are employed as disability analysts, carrying out functional assessments.
Nurses are employable for these posts if they have been qualified for at least 3 years, are registered to practice with the NMC, and have basic computer skills.
My interview consisted of:
- Face to face interview with medical director and nurse team leader.
- A written paper assessing a scenario, in my case someone with back pain
- A 10 minute basic computer test
“In order to be approved as a disability analyst I had to complete 4 weeks of Atos disability training, reach a certain standard of assessment reports – as decided by audit of all cases seen (I don’t know what criteria was) and was finally approval to carry out Work Capability Assessments (WCA) from the Secretary for Work and Pensions.
In my opinion the money given to Atos and spent on tribunals should be given to NHS GPs. They are best placed to make assessments regarding patients’ work capability. They have access to all medical reports, knowledge of past history, specialist input and they know their patients. My concern would be about what criteria the DWP would impose on GPs risking the doctor/patient relationship. GPs already assess patients for “fit notes”, which have to be submitted to DWP during assessment phase of ESA.
While I worked at Atos, sessional medical staff were being paid £40 per assessment, as far as I am aware. I have no idea of wages of permanent medical staff. Nurses were on a salary, which, based on 10 assessments a day (Atos target), equalled around £10 per assessment. These are approximate figures but may give a clue as to why Atos are employing nurses rather than doctors.”
Appendix
Most Atos HCPs are not doctors, they are usually nurses or occupational therapists. There are some conditions that will mean you need to be assessed by a qualified specialist nurse, or a doctor and you can ask for this.
List of conditions judged suitable for assessment by neuro trained nurses/any health care profession:
Prolapsed intervertebral disc
Lumbar nerve root compression
Sciatica
Slipped disc
Lumbar spondylosis
Lumbar spondylolisthesis
Lumbar spondylolysis
Cauda equina syndrome
Spinal stenosis
Peripheral neuropathy
Neuropathy
Drop foot
Meralgia paraesthetica
Cervical spondylosis
Cervical nerve root compression
Cervicalgia
Nerve entrapment syndrome
Carpal tunnel syndrome
Trapped nerve
Paraesthesia
Tingling
Numbness
Brachial plexus injury
Polyneuropathy
Dizziness
Vertigo
Essential Tremor
VWF
Alzheimers
List of conditions judged by the DWP and Atos Healthcare as suitable only for assessment by doctors:
Stroke
Head injury with neuro sequelae
Brain haemorrhage/Sub Arachnoid Haemorrhage
Brain tumour
Acoustic Neuroma
Multiple Sclerosis
Motor Neurone Disease
Parkinson’s disease
TIAs
Bulbar Palsy
Myasthenia Gravis
Muscular Dystrophy
Guillain-Barre Syndrome
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis
Syringomyelia
Neurofibromatosis
Spina bifida
Polio
Fits (secondary to brain tumour)
Learning difficulties (with physical problems)
Nystagmus Myelitis
Bells Palsy
Trigeminal Neuralgia
Paraplegia
Quadriplegia
Huntington’s Chorea
Huntington’s Disease
Further information:
Special exemptions from the 15 points criteria: The New Regulation 25
Useful updated information about Regulations 25 & 31: Exceptional Circumstances and Universal Credit.
Exceptional Circumstances: Employment and Support Regulation 31
Employment and Support Allowance: 2013 Regulations in full
The Amendments to ESA Regulations: as laid before Parliament
Clause 99 and important changes to the appeal process: Clause 99, Catch 22 – The ESA Mandatory Second Revision and Appeals
Questions you may be asked at assessment: dwpexamination forum
How to deal with Benefits medical examinations: A Useful Guide to Benefit Claimants when up against ATOS Doctors
More support and helpful advice here: How to deal with Benefits medical examinations
Essential information for ESA claims, assessments and appeals
Previous related articles:
Joyce’s campaign: The Daily Record
Joyce Drummond and Sue Jones: After Atos
Further reading:
7 out of 8 targeted to lose ESA
Amnesty condemns erosion of human rights of disabled in UK
Whistleblower says Atos Work Capability Assessments are unfair
Many thanks to Robert Livingstone for his excellent artwork. Many thanks to Joyce for the information she has provided, and for her courage and integrity, which is so strongly evident in her outstanding campaign work.
I don’t make any money from my work. I am disabled because of illness and have a very limited income. But you can help by making a donation to help me continue to research and write informative, insightful and independent articles, and to provide support to others. The smallest amount is much appreciated – thank you.
Politics and Insights 
[b]EVER[/b]
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Hi, all , I must say a very interesting read ,just wondering has anyone got any advice as im due for an atos assessment in just over a week and after reading the horror stories above im now worring myself sick,ive been suffering for many years with back problems,have had all mri scans etc, have recently had another which showed a few disc buldges,then a ct which showed copd,i am on high doses of medication (i.e morphine etc) but it seems all of this will not matter to them, I am getting the latest letters from the spinal clinic etc etc to take with me as is all my medication coming, but it seems this could all be a waste of time after reading the above things others have wrote, I am going to record the interview,but should I tell them this first ? another thing I only seen my doctor a day ago and he had not even heard of atos, so they do not contact the doctor as other have also said, but any advice would be good as im going on a downward spiral at the mo , Thank you
Mark
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Appreciating the dedication you put into your website and in depth information you offer. It’s great to come across a blog every once in a while that isn’t the same old rehashed information. Great read! I’ve saved your site and I’m adding your RSS feeds to my Google account.
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What’s Taking place i am new to this, I stumbled upon this I’ve discovered
It absolutely helpful and it has aided me out loads. I’m hoping to give a contribution & aid other users like its helped me. Great job.
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Good answer back in return of this difficulty with firm
arguments and describing all regarding that.
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I have found this page to be very helpful and somewhat scarey,my husband has had the form arrive and after looking on several sites about ATOS,I have to say I am stressed to the point of almost having a breakdown.My husband is a diabetic with complications,he has a hospital bed at home and a wheelchair,he has autonomic neurophathy,peripheral neuropathy,incontinent of bladder and bowel,ghastro perisis,hypoglycemia unawareness,postural hypotention,hypertention,diabetic foot ulcers ,but looking at the answers other people have given on sites,i’ll be lucky to get a home visit.This organisation shouldn’t be allowed to treat people like this,they are treating everyone as if they are shirkers and liars.My husband is a proud man and I’m scared with these so called ” catch you out ” questions that he will say the wrong thing,if we lose his money I can’t cope with looking after him on my own,have they got to wait for him to collapse and be taken into hospital before they realise people are not ill because they want to be.If all these refused claimants end up in hospital because of a wrong decision,don’t they realise it will cost hundreds of pounds weekly to keep them in care homes or nursing homes,this government needs to re think this.I have gotten to the point where I don’t know wether I’m filling in the form for him right,I don’t know what to do .
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This is up to date, and worth reading before you fill in the forms. It provides a legal framework to hang your case on, before they even get to the assessment stage. I hope that you can use it, with success
https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/1560/
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Jackie, PM me on Facebook Joyce Drummond and I’ll help if I can.
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If you PM me, I will add you to our ESA support group as well. It’s a closed group for privacy, to prtect confidentiality of members, and we have a lawyer on our admin team, as well as experienced support from other admins.
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I have received the result of my assessment and I have only scored 6..;I.do not feel I am capable.of.work …can I appeal this?I am so fed up..crying a lot suffering with depression and don’t go out on my own..I really don’t know what to do
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Yes you can appeal. There are 2 regulations about Exceptional Circumstances that may be used instead of points, and the “reliably, repeatedly and safely” proviso may also be useful in your case.
Here is an up to date guide to those, which I hope you will find useful – https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/1560/
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this page as been very helpfull,but since iv become ill,iv now had 3 heart attacks,will they still want me to work,im 64,and just sent my form off,but being stubborn ill end up asking for there letters after there names,like doctors have
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I have just recently seen online Atos overuling GPs on sick claimants’ requests for visits so i emailed my local MP for my Area on 21/06/13 at 12.41 am asking for Help and recieved a email back 21/06/13 at 9.30 am saying…
Dear Mr Smith
Thank you for your email and I am sorry to learn of the difficulties you are experiencing with an ATOS assessment. I will of course take this matter up on your behalf to see if they can arrange a home visit and I will write to you again as soon as I receive a response from the DWP. You can now Email your Local MP Write everything about why you cant make a wca Assesment and require a Home Visit stating all your Conditions its the First step for me along this Frustrating Journey And wish you all the best Good Luck .
http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/local/atos-overuling-gps-on-sick-claimants-requests-for-visits-1-5163651#.Ubzxvr1m2Us.facebook
Writing to your Local MP
http://www.writetothem.com/
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Well done Spencer, on circumventing the obstacles that Atos and DWP are determined to throw our way. This will be helpful information for others to use too, so thank you for sharing .
Very best wishes and good luck with the assessment,arranging the home visit and the outcome. Please do let us know how you get on .
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I am very new to All this and the help i have gained online has been very Informative to me and others , lets hope for a succesfull outcome as i say this is the first positive step for me . I am learning just how complicated and frustrating this complex wca system is and my question that if i had the chance to ask DWP/ATOS is why has it taken 2 years and still no real advance in Audio recordings at WCA Assesments for claimants and just a pilot scheme which the pilot went ahead in Atos’s Newcastle assessment centre between March and May 2011, and an evaluation report was submitted to the DWP on 4 June 2011. In a Westminster Hall debate on 1 February 2012, the previous Minister, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), set out the Government’s position. He said that due to a lack of demand, audio recording would not be rolled out for all assessments. Specifically he said:
“We decided not to implement universal recording because, based on the trial experience, people did not want it.”—[Official Report, 1 February 2012; Vol. 539, c. 292WH.]
I am afraid that that assertion is not justified. The Atos pilot concluded that
“68% of customers agreed to the recording when contacted by telephone prior to the appointment.”
Due to some claimants not turning up for their assessment, or eventually deciding that they did not want a recording, the figure for those whose assessments were recorded dropped to 46%. That figure is still substantial, however, and the demand for audio recordings is reflected in one of Atos’s key conclusions, which stated:
“Our recommendation would be that recording should be become routine as it is in a call centre or, for example, NHS Direct.”
Parliamentary questions and freedom of information requests have yielded another metric to defend the Government’s position—namely, that only 1% of the claimants in the pilot requested a copy of their recording. However, that cannot be regarded as an accurate reflection of demand, for two reasons. First, assessors in the pilot used hand-held devices and the recordings had to be transferred to computers and burnt to CDs after the assessments. That meant that claimants could not pick up their recording on the day but had to go to the added effort of making a request in writing. In effect, that required claimants to opt into the pilot and then opt in again to get their recording. We also do not know what the claimants thought the pilot was about. Often, when we phone helplines, we are told on a recorded message that the call will be recorded for staff training purposes. It is possible that the claimants in the pilot were not clear about its purpose.
Secondly, claimants were told that recordings would be of use to them only in the event of an appeal. Given that the report was completed just days after the pilot concluded, most of those involved would not yet have received a decision on their claim, let alone come to a view on whether they would appeal. Demand for copies might well have been higher had this metric been measured after a longer period. I therefore ask the Minister to accept that the number of claimants in the pilot who requested a copy of their recording is not an accurate reflection of demand, and that the number of people acquiescing to their assessment being recorded is a more appropriate metric to use.
Turning to what has happened in the two years since the pilot, I want to refer back to the statement given by the previous Minister in Westminster Hall on 1 February 2012. In addition to claiming that there had not been much demand for audio recordings, he said that
“we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded.”—[Official Report, 1 February 2012; Vol. 539, c. 291WH.]
In practice, however, it is hard for anyone to have an assessment recorded. The option to request recordings is not mentioned in the official DWP communications to claimants. I was reassured to see that the DWP website was updated last week, on 6 June, and that it now states that the Department and Atos are going to amend written communications. It states:
“We are working to introduce more widespread information for all claimants as soon as possible.”
However, it is now two years since the pilot, and the Department is still “working” to have this included in its communications. It does not seem to be too complicated a sentence to include in letters to claimants.
My right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) said in a debate on 4 September that even when requests are made, they are not always met due to a lack of equipment. A freedom of information response from 22 May this year indicated that Atos now has some 50 audio recording machines, but this is inadequate given that over 11,000 assessments are undertaken across the country every week. Another freedom of information request from 23 May suggests that this national roll-out may even be a temporary measure that will end later this year.
Will the Minister confirm when DWP communications will be able to inform claimants that they can have their assessment recorded? To how many audio recording devices does Atos now have access? Will he confirm whether the recordings currently taking place are part of a wider roll-out that is intended to be permanent or merely a further pilot?
This really makes me lol i was not written to by Dwp/Atos about this back in October 2012 when i got my request to attend a wca and not even saying i could apply for a Home Visit this should have been rolled out from the start how hard can it be to write a few notes explaining this .. i called Atos Saying due to high Anxiety levels and not sleeping the night before my Assesment i could not attend the guy on reception said and he did begin to raise his voice at me and the tone changed Mr Smith you turned down a previous App because you needed more time to get Medical evidence which is not that easy to say the least as Docs are getting frustrated how Atos works and they want to gather there own assesment taking time to get the facts right for there patients not hurry like Atos want .. when i said to this guy from Atos that i was never written too explaining i could apply for a Home visit as i had only been made aware online recently tat you could he could not answer me and went on that well Mr Smith now you will be getting a letter in a couple of days fill in the form and return it within 7 days lol got it today and its BF223(ESA) form why i never made this wca appointment it is postmarked from Atos but from the Jobcentreplus and they called me Miss Smith not typed handwritten lol i have never worn a dress in all my life maybe they need a wca assesment themselves i could go on how i feel about Atos /Dwp .. anyway off to have a few Beers and Happy friday to all of you have a nice weekend and il report back soon and many thanks Kitty for your reply i appreciate it! .. bye for now my friends
Work Capability Assessments scroll down to this 12 Jun 2013 : Column 456
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130612/debtext/130612-0004.htm#13061288000001
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Reblogged this on stoleninnocence2012's Blog and commented:
An excellent blog with great info re Work Capability Assessments by ATOS! Pls RT & share
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Reblogged this on paultmillington and commented:
This is a very good read
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Thank you for this, I can’t wait for the day this lot are held accountable for the suffering they have caused.
Is it not the job of a government to look after the sick and disabled after all many have worked and paid into the system.
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It does show how thin the veneer of civilisation is, to me. Because so many have either endorsed this governments actions, or turned a blind eye to what is going down. Sick and disabled people are being openly persecuted and demonised. The whole Country is sat on its hands, watching Big brother and X-Factor. Meanwhile, we are dying, suffering, and the government are carrying on, no investigation, no pity, no remorse and certainly no mercy.
The Labour party have challenged, though, and that gives me some hope. They have called for the WCA to be scrapped. They have raised the deaths in Parliament, they are aware at least of our plight. They cannot do more than challenge though. And we have 2 years to go before we can vote the authoritarian monsters out.
Now would not be a good time to re-run the Milgram experiment.
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This may help @paultm: RT @paultm: Hi please read and share with as many people as you can.
: Hold the DWP and associated MPs accountable http://t.co/axtSMB1Eps
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i had my assessment 4 weeks ago and i had atos record it but it still did,nt stop the lies , i got 0 points for my chronic arthritis but its the lies that upset me more than anything , im seriously thinking about taking legal action if i can find a no win no fee solicitor willing to act for me for slander as one of the many lies she told was im a drug user , i have never taken drugs in my life apart from my prescribed medication . i told her i sleep alot and have dizzy spells etc due to my medication on the report i recieved back from them she wrote he has blackouts due to his drug use and medication that to me is slander.
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Stephen, Atos are contracted by DWP. You can complain to –
Operations Correspondence Team
PO Box 50101
London SW1P 2WU
or
correspondence@dwp.gsi.gov.uk
Mark FAO- John Oliver.
I hope this helps.
Also make sure you have copy of complaint included in appeal papers if you are going to Tribunal.
Good luck.
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Good luck, Stephen.
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thanks for your help i really appreciate it
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I know how it makes you mad to think they can get away with it. One day I hope ATOS and IDS are held accountable for the problems they have caused.
Take care.
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My brother just had his assessment. It was delayed as the first time when he went to the medical centre they said he was in no fit state to carry on with the assessment. He was on the floor shaking and crying. Has been diagnosed with Post traumatic Stress Disorder/M.E/and Clinical depression and anxiety. So the HCP came today and I answered the door – he was in bed shaking and crying. She was very nice, told him she wasn’t going to ask him much, said to me “it’s very clear cut but the decision is made b the decision maker…” then left ofter 13mins. Can anyone with some experience give me any clarity on this? She asked him a few questions, date of birth, medication, how does he cope..but that was it. No physical exam?
Good or a bad sign?
He had letter from his therapist, his doctor and a chronic fatigue clinic and one saying he was going to be referred to the mental health unit locally..
Thanks
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Without wanting to give a 100% guarantee- I’d say Good News!
The HCP will compile a report- sounds like your brother should be in Support Group- and make her recommendation to Decision Maker. She will have to justify why she has awarded points, but that should be easily done, given the state your brother was in. She doesn’t seem to have spent time with trying to find reasons to justify finding him fit for work.
The Decision Maker then makes the decision bases on HCP report/recommendation.
I hope I am right and best wishes to you and your brother.
They have no idea of the trauma these “assessments” cause people.
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I think they are happy to cause more suffering. It’s a sick world we live in
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ALL THESE MPS WHO SUPPORT ATOS ARE THEY NOT COMMITING GENOCIDE AMONGST THE SICK AND DISABLED? SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS HUNG FOR THIS!
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http://www.sheilagilmore.co.uk/dwp-quietly-confirms-atos-isnt-working-after-all/
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http://budgetingadvance.com/stba-appeals-know-your-rights/
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Thanks Spencer, those are useful links
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My Update so Far …
I have heard back from my MP ok so have to put in a Appeal get medical evidence and letter from GP stating i want a Wca Home Visit .. the easy bit , but why have they stopped my IB as of 25th july 2013 saying i never showed good reason why i could not attend my wca at a assesment centre , yet i wrote them a letter why i cant due to my problems ie clinical Depression / severe Anxiety and going into great depth. So what are my options now just had my last payment been on it over 20 yrs and slap now only have my partners JB and my DLA .. so do i claim JB as i am not allowed ESA BUT I AM NOT SEEKING WORK really is starting to grind now any suggestions gratefully recieved as always many thanks S.S
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Uk have more gold then any other country. Most of the gold come to UK during war in 1947.
First target was India.
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Valuable info. Lucky me I found your site accidentally, and I’m stunned why this twist of fate did not came about in advance! I bookmarked it.
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I am about to Write to the RT Hon David Cameron i have had enough and feel the time has come to vent my Feelings please feel free to add your name here and i will pass this on .. I will be raising some Important Points And Facts many thanks
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I have a digital recording that proves the HCP lied blatanlty in the record she made on my ‘assessment” .. just that I could prove lies made the ‘tribunal independant dr and ”judge” ” tell me I’ve ‘won’ my appeal.. atos=liars n cheats
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Well done Nick! I recommend that everyone ensures they ask for a recording. It made all the difference for me, too. It is a right to have the “assessment” recorded, they will try and fob people off, but we can insist, as is our right.
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http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/disabled-protesters-blockade-the-bbc/
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Yes, thanks Spencer 🙂
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anyone know where i can go to get a short term payment to cover gas electric and food for 7 days as what with my I/B being stopped i only have dla and thats exhausted for this month and my partner and i are going through a jsa3 change of circumstances application going through we was told would take 4 days has taken over 7 and when she called to see how it was going they had only just started the claim so jcplus are liars and the woman said we could go through a short term payment to see you through till the claim goes through she called back 30 mins later to say we cant give you this short term payment as the claim is going through the 14 day cycle and cannot help there stupid guidelines from the government pff .. so now what we cant eat tonight this has to stop now cameron has no idea what familys are going through come and spend 24rs here , now you pompous old twat!! .. any help would be gratefully recieved my friends..
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Hopefully will be rolled out to all areas of the country.. Help guidelines if your in a crisis just click on the pic and download pdf doc
http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/scotland-in-crisis-under-tory-union.html
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http://dpac.uk.net/2013/08/reclaiming-our-futures-freedom-drive-4th-september/
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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/porn-parliament-300-000-viewing-attempts-084304706.html#LX6283q
Wunch of bankers the lot of them !
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Utter bankers!!
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http://www.southend.gov.uk/info/200132/claiming_benefits/1462/extra_financial_help/3
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Wrongness…..
the one thing that jumped out at me from that list was “were you able to go to the assessment alone”…..howabout, being alone is the reason you are there…?
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Cant believe some of the things I have read here, although I am not doubting they are true. If your GP says you are ill, this should be enough for DWP. It is undermining the GP, that gives the sick notes out. We all no that there are some people who just dont want to work, but the vast majority are people who cant work, due to illness. Sometimes the Meds you take help with the condition you suffer from, but, also make you feel totally exhausted and unable to work.
I wish it was possible for some of these assessors to walk in your shoes for a day. Maybe then they would show a bit more compassion to the people they interview, or maybe they have targets to reach. JUST A THOUGHT.
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I am sure that they have targets to reach, and you are so right when you point out that the vast majority are genuinely ill and disabled. Steve Bicks, an under cover employee told us that Atos are contracted to remove lifeline benefits form 7 out of 8 of us, regardless of how ill and disabled we are
The fraud rate for ESA stood at 0.5% before the assessment was made so harsh, and the low fraud rate cannot justify the constant re-assessment and frank harassment that has been introduced.
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Interesting Very Interesting ..
Click to access Reasons%20%20Macbean%20ICIO%20041481%2020130731.pdf
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Got mine on Wednesday coming up irony of it they insult you by sending bus routes and walking routes etc when my form clearly said I couldn’t do public transport or walk far. I am nervous I am in constant pain but on a good day can do bits of things. on a bad day not so much, I get depressed I sometimes feel old before my time and there is loads I would love to do but can’t, but I guess a will lose my money like most people, why can’t they leave us alone, there are no jobs for people that want them it is just statistics to them
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I have asked for a wca Home Visit got my MP involved and he has Been keeping me informed of Developments he wrote to dwp basically saying i am unable to go out Dwp wrote to me and said get a letter from your GP. Went to see him and showed him he was a little confused as to what i wanted exactly. He said if my MP gets in touch with me he will post this letter on to my GP, ok all cleared . A few days later i get a letter from my GP saying i have to make a appointment to see him and explain this letter i want , i think he was really busy with the patients and workload that day it went over his head , I called him and he called me back 20 mins later and said he would support me and drafted me a letter and posted it onto me to put in with my letter , the letter from him goes well into my concerns and his support , Dwp wrote to me a little while back saying if you cant get to the assesment centre get a taxi .. lol they really love to get out of it , they would drag you in if they could. If i get my Home visit it better be with a disability Anaylist who is not Drunk and Disordley on Duty or il kick his/her Butt out the Door .. we will wait and see (:
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What a fantastic page, it’s been an enormous help to me and relieved a great deal of stress. Thank you Kitty, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! Just one question – somebody told me last week that the rules about which conditions are assessed by a doctor were changed in June, and that CFS and other neurological conditions will now be assessed by any HCP. How can I check this out? Is there an official source on a web site somewhere, or do I have to do a FOI request? It’s really worrying me – I have CFS, I was found fit for work at my first two assessments, I finally got into the support group at the third attempt, and I’m dreading the fourth assessment, whenever that may be.
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This Blog, proves, It’s what I’ve said all along about Mr Duncan Smith reforms of the benefit system. It just tory poor bashing, it’s not about getting people back in to work, there is no or very little work in most areas of the country.
Mr Duncan Smith, has ordered Atos to get as many people off incapacity benefit and other related benefits as possible,” that is their remit.”
Those, saving money for the government to be able to give it to the rich. Just make the poor pay.
Getting people with disabilities back in to work is a uphill challenge, “who will take them on, knowing that they have some kind of disability.” They cannot get the young and people without disabilities back in to work.
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Hey guess what mine was cancelled the night before I was due to go, the person who was doing it was off sick and no one was available to carry on with it, best was I was laid up in bed with my condition and was worrying about getting there, If I had cancelled through illness I would probably have been in trouble.
I am so stressed about this I would love to work and get a job but I am too unreliable
and wouldn’t keep a job, when some days I can’t get out of bed. But they wont care about that.
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The only other government i can think of that turned on its own disabled community was Nazi Germany !
This has obviously inspired IDS’s warped ideology.
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I have ankylosing Sonndylitis, I have had it for over 30 years but still kept dragging myself to work year after year as it got worse, finally it was diagnosed in 2008 and I was told at that time by the DWP or what ever they were called then that I should not be working,i am now 60 years old and now although parts of my lower back and left hip are fused together, and my neck is almost seized solid and is always painful even with medication, this is what the assessor put in his report, and I quote: “From the upper limb examination there were no observations associated with a problem with his neck” This chap (little boy!) clearly has no medical experience, and even less compassion for the people he is dealing with, my opinion for what its worth?? no better that a double glazing salesman and just in it for the money. what has this once great country come to??
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My son has been summoned to an Atos medical assessment in December. Apart from a 2 year spell at a Special Needs College when he was 16 he has never left home, he is now 29. He suffers from Asperger’s Syndrome. Despite scouring many websites to find information regarding this mental problem and anything relative to his condition and Atos O can find nothing.
Last year I approached the clinic at Worcester Royal Infirmary with regard to his original medical records but they stated that they do not keep records from that long ago. I cannot even find a trace of the health officer who actually found him the place at the Special Needs College. Obviously DWP will have some records otherwise they would not still be paying his benefits.
Looking at the evidence of many people who have faced the assessors the mental aspect is barely an issue when compared with the physical side. In essence as long as you can pick up a shovel that’s it..work! (Sounds very Nazi like doesn’t it)
My concern is that Atos will only use a medical assessment as opposed to the mental one required in my sons case. I only received notification of the appointment on Friday 15th and with the assessment taking place on December 5th this only leaves me 20 days (Less 6 for weekends) to find any information related to my sons mental abilities, whereas Atos will be fully prepared. Sounds like “farmers get yur rakes and o’s the vikin’s is a comin”.
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Try contacting your local MP Greg? I did and he was most helpful I am now in the ESA Support Group
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I am totally fed up of trying to prove i am unfit for work, these decision makers are the lowest of the low, and i do not know how they can sleep at night, talk about getting blood out of a stone, compared to being awarded ESA, i think it would be easier. I could rant on endlessly about my own account of events, but i will share just two that have annoyed me, the first being when i went to medically assessed, but i was unaware that it was a test to see if i was capable for work, the nurse was talking to me casually, like it was chit-chat, i had recently moved to the area, and asked me if the school where my children attend was close by, and if they had settled in alright, i told her it was about 10 mins away…..
OMG!!! what an idiot i am sometimes, i see good in people and its my downfall, the crafty cow had been assessing me so slyly, in her report she wrote that it takes me 10 minutes to walk my children to school, making note of the distance and using it against me, i answered her question, but when i said 10 mins i was speaking generally, i didnt mean me, it takes me a lot longer than 10 minutes, and she wrote how i walk my kids every day. I have to get my kids to school, there is only me who can take them, i often am in tears with every step i have to take, i have no choice, she didnt make me aware at all i was being assessed, like she doesnt see me bust out in tears, crying out loud as i shut my front door. All of my assessment she tricked me and used it against me.
My doctor when i went to get a sicknote to send in for my ESA claim was more concerned about her own hassles she may get from DWP then my hassles having to go out to work, and that right pissed me off too. I am still fighting for my rights, Good luck to yu all.
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Hi Sally
Yes completely with you, I went for mine with my 84 year old dad, I was assessed walking 7 meters slowly and painfully walking to the room, and then because once I sat down I didn’t stand up again I lost points and when I did stand up she noted my dad had to help and I was in pain, I didn’t stand up during the meeting because standing to sit again causes more agony so I bared the pain. They actually stated on my decision that I could walk 7 meters slowly but I could walk 200 meters fine???and then I could use a manual wheelchair never been in a wheelchair in my life and have frozen shoulders so couldn’t work one, like you I cry sometimes the pain is so bad they noted that there are days I can’t get out of bed, and they agree I couldn’t stay at a work station for longer then 50 mins and yet I only got 6 points the system is pathetic who would employ me when I am not reliable to turn up I would love a job but realise I couldn’t do one.
Another thing is I have a professor report saying how bad my bad is and that it’s degenerative so not going to get better and they wont look at it because it’s over 8 years old.
so frustrating I am fighting like you good luck.
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keep it up dont let the buggers grind you down , IDS Camtwat included Good luck if you need help let me know , i came out the other end .. Rollercoaster!!!! Emotions
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Hi
Thanks for your support, I have started the mandatory reconsideration, but it isn’t clear what happens next if I lose that I go to appeal, is this medicals etc, or just in front of a board, some are saying occy health will come my house, i’ll have x-rays and medicals etc, not bothered will still fight on but not knowing and hearing different stories does get to you.
Well done for getting there.
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Once your mandatory review is done, you can claim basic rate ESA again up until the hearing too
The appeal is a panel, made up of a judge and a doctor. They are usually fair, in my own experience, and will look at the evidence you send them, and read it, listen to you, they may ask a few questions to clarify things. Then they will make a decision about your entitlement.
I would recommend you read this, too, for info and support regarding your appeal. There are a couple of regulations that you may find useful to use, amongst other sound and up to date advice – https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/1560/
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Well im sickened by these posts including this one. I’ll never ever vote Conservative again now, their sub human animals as far as im concerned for doing this, animals. Even the hated Thatcher wouldn’t have tried to have inflicted this on the British. I sincerely hope all of you get your just desserts, keep at it and don’t give into this sick Atos creature thing, disgusting. Hopefully when we get decent government back the whole thing will be scrapped. Goodluck to you all.
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Thank you James, and I am glad that you can see how others are suffering, many have died.. Yet rather than investigate those 11,000 deaths we know of, that have happened when people have had their ESA claim ended, the Government have chosen instead to label us as “extremist activists”. And they have also refused to release further statistics on the deaths. So 11, 000 was the figure in early 2012.
I am very fearful of what is being hidden from us, as well as what we can actually see happening.
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